Monday, April 02, 2007

The Faustian Bargain

Since its inception in the sixteenth century, the story of Faust and his pact with the devil entailed more than self-interest. Faust made his deal with the devil in return for acclaim and the pursuit of knowledge. The figures in this study were not simply corrupt or self-promoting. The vast majority of the people involved in this Internet shell game of fakes, fraud, and harassment are at the top of their respective fields. In this case the director of a national museum and all the resources of his inventory are in play. Many advanced collectors, dealers, authors, and historians who are involved in the copy trade are hosting Internet Militaria forums. The Austrian creator of the Land Farce forum is an authority on Austrian militaria, and has written a series of books on the subject of Austrian military history, awards, badges, and decorations.


The Internet

There exists today what appears to me to be a loose network of individuals in Austria, Hungary, the United States, and western Canada, as well as a number of independent operators, who make and sell reproductions of rare Austro-Hungarian and Hungarian badges. In fact, a full-time copy manufacturer exists in Budapest, that produces nothing but well made copies for the collecting market. The Internet which provides access to an international market, is the most visible of the venues these individuals exploit. That same visibility reveals the nature of these individuals' activities to the knowledgeable collector. Complicating matters is the fact that the Internet historical and collecting web page provides numerous sources of information on badges for collectors, information that runs the gamut from accurate to false and self-serving, information the quality of which can be difficult to assess. As much as I despise those who earn their living duping collectors, I must acknowledge my indebtedness to them for providing, in part, the motivation to write this article and publish several books.

Web pages or on line forums that cover a broad topic, end up relying on the expertise of others when the topic is too broad for any one person to know it all. The accuracy of the product usually reflects their judgment in choosing their collaborators. I have seen a large amount of erroneous information regarding badges of Germany, Austria and Hungary from both World Wars printed and then repeated elsewhere - once it makes its way into print, erroneous information takes on a life of its own.

There are a million stories out their, on television, the print media or the Internet. Web pages have found a new place among information sources. On line publishing is the latest trend in exchanging ideas and information. In this case, an entire web site was used not only to qualify the authors view on Austrian military history but to qualify a series of Austro-Hungarian copy badges, that are currently being manufactured in Hungary. This web page employs clever deception to qualify both copies and expert knowledge. The web sites creator is well hidden as the co-founder of the page and fronted from another country. The Land Farce web site that was supposedly created to detail the history of the Austrian Empire, appears to rise above many other web pages in terms of creative inventiveness or pure chutzpah.

According to the Merriam Webster unabridged dictionary:

Main Entry: van·i·ty
Pronunciation: 'va-n&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English vanite, from Old French vanité, from Latin vanitat-, vanitas quality of being empty or vain, from vanus empty, vain.
Date: 13th century
1 : something that is vain, empty, or valueless
2 : the quality or fact of being vain
3 : inflated pride in oneself or one's appearance :conceit
4 : a fashionable trifle or knicknack

Red Flag

While surfing the Internet I found what was described as a Austro-Hungarian military web site. A large home page appeared featuring Austro-Hungarian leaders, decorations and a links section. I was initially attracted to the sites many listed articles, and the information that the comprehensive page seem to provide. The web site even featured a discussion forum. The site seemed to provide a wealth of information on the very subject I was looking for. I moved to Central Europe years ago and I become interested in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and it’s turbulent history, in particular the actions of the k.u.k. army in the First World War. Looking closely at the home page, I was surprised to learn that the web site was based in the UK and not in Austria.

Being intrigued by the web page I decided to take a closer look. I was impressed by the page design but not it’s content. All the information on the site had no authors or photo credits. The exception was one photo diary page with several listed individuals as providing photographs, several decorations on the home page had a listed photo credit and a listed sources link.

The only published story on the web site that had a listed author, detailed WWI Austro-Hungarian Strom Troop badges. As I scrolled down the Strumtruppen badge display page some printed illustrations appeared, then a gamut of storm badges in white metal, enamel, and zinc were displayed on the page. Many of the badges had weak details, in particular the skull section of the badge had dimples, holes, and rough metal. Many of the badges that were displayed demonstrated a "bluish/purplish" hue to the skull and other areas. This appeared to me to be a modern silver wash anodizing agent. The first two displayed badges had a dull gray wreath, dark with age, yet both featured a bright finish to the skull and flying eagle, they appeared artificially aged. The badge on the right, had Storm Batl. 13 motto. I saw what was described as another storm troop badge variant. This badge had a green enamel wreath, a bronzed soaring eagle with two small grenades in it’s talons and to the bottom of the wreath, and again the motto, Strum Batl. 13. I have seen dozens of these identical badges being sold in Central Europe and on the Internet, many badges on this page had been identified as copies.

UPDATE: Damage Control!

Museum copies anyone? The Land Farce website has changed history yet again! They have totally changed and revamped the kuk Storm Batl. page. This was done after several recent visits to an Austrian museum. It appears that a certian person who "works" at a museum uses a pen name for various reasons. It confirms my worst fears that the someone from a national museum is really in charge of the website and using original materials to make copies from their inventory. They have added over thirty assault badges, many appear to be from the museum inventory. Other photos appear to be rare kuk storm troop photos from the archives. Again, luckily I have down loaded the old page for comparison. It seems they have pixilated one of the remaining enamel copy Storm Batl. 13 badges.

The Information Game

After viewing the storm troop presentation I sent several emails to the two listed creators, one was located in the UK and the other in Austria. I complimented both parties on the web page. I waited over a week and finally the UK creator responded and thanked me. I wondered why the creator had taken so long to respond.

The supposed UK creator claimed to be an English militaria enthusiast, he told me that he was the original creator of the web site. He claimed he had brought the Austrian on board a year after he started the page in October 2001. Looking at the many articles and other information posted on the site, it appeared that the author used broken English in areas with many incomplete and broken sentences, misspelled words, and incorrect syntax. Some areas of the text appeared with a third person narrative style which seemed strange. I asked the creator who was the author of the published work on his site? The creator failed to explain who was writing the articles or providing the photographs. The web page also displayed the Austrian’s complete roll of published works: books, collecting articles, and other biographical details of the author. The site did not display or publish any of the supposed original creators own work. Seeing the Austrian’s large selection of militaria collecting books, I sent several emails to him regarding purchasing some of his material. The Austrian responded and claimed that all the listed books on the web page were out of print except for one and were published ten years previously by him. When I asked, if the books are out of print, why did he display them on the web page for sale? The Austrian never responded. It appeared to me that the creator was in reality managing the site for the Austrian half of the team in particular the forum. While the Austrian supplied information and published work, scans on Austrian military history, badges and medals.

I informed the creator that I was in the process of writing a book on Austro-Hungarian aviation badges, he assured me that he would offer all the assistance that his site could offer to aid my efforts in completing my book. I wanted to publish several articles on militaria collecting, to include copies of rare Austrian decorations and Hungarian military officers. I asked the UK creator if he could post some of my articles to their “What’s New" section. The creator never responded. I emailed the creator several times a week, and in the course of our conversations, I sent several scans of Austrian military officers. I asked several questions regarding decorations that were displayed on the photos, noting the many articles on Austrian awards and decorations that were published on his web site. I received no response.

Several days later, the creator admitted that a majority of the writing for the page was sent by the Austrian to him via email and that he simply loaded the stories to the web site. The creator also admitted having little knowledge regarding Austrian awards and decorations and told me to view their page on Austrian military decorations or contact the Austrian who was an “expert“ on Austrian awards. The UK creator also told me that, “it would be very difficult if not impossible to track any officer by his awards or decorations on a photo.” However, the creator claimed that he had just loaded a great story on the 1915 Austro-Hungarian Naval Pilot’s badge. The creator told me that a collecting magazine had previously published the Austrian's work, and did not do it justice. The creator was going to edit and present the Austrian's slant on military history accurately and correctly for the web site.

When I saw the latest addition to the site, I was stunned. This was not the original work of the Austrian or the UK creator but information that had been previously published on an Austrian k.u.k. Kreigsmarine web site. I had used part of this sites information as a research tool over the past year for several projects regarding A-H naval aviation. The Austrian naval web site email does not work, so I contacted a well known Austrian publisher that sells many books with Austrian military themes. The publisher told me that a majority of the material for the Austrian site was already published in several comprehensive naval books. I also noticed that some of the naval aviation photographs were also previously published in some of my Hungarian military aviation books as well.

The Land Farce site creator had used much of the Austrian’s naval web sites information and simply loaded it onto his web page, even the photo of the naval officer displaying his Naval Pilot’s badge was lifted from the Austrian site. The only unique addition to the story was the co-creators insertion of naval training conditions and the published order on the creation of the naval pilot‘s badge, information that is part of the public record. Their was no listed author and no listed photo credits for any of the published military histories.

I was also surprised to see a supposed k.u.k. Kreigsmarine 1915 Naval Pilot’s badge displayed for the story, apparently from the Austrian’s previously published W.W.I Austrian pilots badge book. The 1915 Austro-Hungarian Naval Pilot's badge is so rare that I have only seen two that I believe to be genuine and they appear to be post war produced by Rothe. Excellent craftsmanship but no maker stamp or silver content number. The example of the badge, presented as genuine and displayed on the Land Farce website has soft, round edges with weak details to the Albatross, and appears to have been molded. The displayed badge has no rivets and is flat. I have seen numerous other examples of the Austrian naval pilot's badge displayed on at least a dozen different web sites featuring aviation or flight badges, and none conformed to the criteria for an original badge. The Austrian 1915 Naval Pilot's badge is a small convex badge and a work of art. The naval pilots badge on the Land Farce website is a complete fake! The author of the piece does a very clever job of qualifying the fake as original though.


UPDATE: to Copy is the most sincere form of flattery

More weird. It appears that the Austrian connection and others that I have been viewing are looking at my written work. I have noticed this for months, via ISP numbers and other stat programs. Since I have contacted a certain Austrian museum recently many changes have occurred. All this after I sent this e-mail to the director of the museum:

(5. I have seen this K.u.K Kriegsmarine web site http://www.kuk-k.at/. This Austrian historical Internet web site includes a roll of names and dates of k.u.k. naval officers who received flight training. Also listed are a roll of officers who received the naval pilot's badge in 1915. Amazingly! This is the identical information that is posted on Jörge website to include scans of some of the naval officers. Is the http://www.kuk-k.at/. written by Jörge? The email does not work and I have no way of checking, there is no listed author, creator, nor is their any photo credits. STRANGE.)

Hang on! I just checked the kuk navy website. The kuk navy website has changed their entire navy story which is exceedingly similar kuk naval history to what I have written, in fact almost word for word. The website has updated and completely changed their lay out and one page uses a number of Austrian museum logos and displays many museum and archive photos. The changed kuk naval history format has been entirely changed into two seperate pages, one with the correct pilot listing and another with a embellished naval history. The previous story had several distinctive mistakes, one: the old kuk naval website claimed the naval service was created in 1912 and not 1910 and two: that a famous Austrian army pilot, noted ace (Fernburg) and war hero was a naval pilot. This was all mixed in with the Gazette publication of the naval pilots on one page. I down loaded the Land Farce navy story as well as the OLD kuk site navy story. I have down loaded the old aviation stories of Land Farce as well. It looks like the power of information and a little investigation is going a long way to solving this problem and a big mystery.

Nightmare On Line

Several weeks later, I sent scans of the latest copy from Hungary to the UK creator and forum moderator. I made a follow up email regarding an article on the Hungarian Saint Stefan Order copy. The creator then suggested that I post it to the forum. This created much turmoil amongst the ranks in the forum crowd. In the following six weeks I posted three stories on copies: the copy Hungarian St. Stefan Order which I had seen at the flea market, one on the Austrian Order of the Golden Fleece, from an Internet Auction, and another on the Stefan Order with diamonds and rubies from a web site. The Austrian knocked the first piece and then set about a campaign of harassment with his "followers," several were located in Poland. The Austrian attacked many of my forum postings regarding Russia and Serbia on the eastern front.

When I responded or commented on the Austrians incompetence or abrasive behavior on line, my comments were merely deleted by the UK creator. It appeared to me that the Austrian is connected to a Canadian copy crowd. This same group, had previously had driven me off the Internet auction circuit. The Canadians started to post on the Land Farce forum and deliberately tried to get me to expose certain fraudsters who the Austrian was working with. One Internet auction seller in particular was targeted from the Vancouver area who distributes W.W.I cap badge copies on the Internet. I was convinced that this Vancouver seller had his entire cap badge collection copied in Hungary. When I declined to comment and posted advice on the Internet: many of the Austrian’s shills, friends, and followers immediately posted hostile comments on my published work.

The Canadian copy crowd then set about a childish campaign of posting inflammatory and idiot postings on the Land Farce forum, using my first name in several postings and implying in other postings that it was me using different names. Finally the copy king came on line and posted under the name that, mocked the Austrian’s Internet auction user ID, the forum participant made a number of personnel negative attacks against me on a collecting thread. The creator wouldn't take the posting down, nor would he let me respond. Twenty-four hours after the Canadian’s hostile posting, the UK creator finally took down the Canadians comments. He then deleted all my collecting stories and also deleted my scans from other postings. It was obvious to me that this was a planned event.

I had observed previously the UK creators playing information games on the forum. It appeared to me and others that the Austrian would email a friend to pose a question, a question that he already had the answer too. Then the English partner would respond on the forum and claim he would check his information. After twenty minutes or so, he would say eureka, I have got it! The so called creator would then give a long list of details about the given subject. Some times the scam back fired, when the Austrian was away from his computer and the creator was stuck, when someone would pose a question on the forum requesting information. The creator would hem and haw but couldn’t give an answer. The creator would get frustrated after several hours or days, as at one point the Austrian was in the hospital and then tell the person to get a book.

I had posted several A-H pilot photos for identification on the forum. Weeks later........ a person supposedly from the USA, posted an 8x10 studio portrait of an Austrian, mountain troop colonel, circa 1930. Minutes after he posted his photo, the creator was hard at it, trying to figure out who the colonel was. I guess the wunderkind remembered my forum photo ID attempts as well as the mailed scans that I had sent months earlier, with my questions, asking about the decorations on the officers and could he ID the officer by his decorations, I had no luck. Strangely enough within forty minutes, the lucky contestant had his answer with full details on his alpine colonel from the forum creator. He claimed he could track the officer by his awards and decorations. Amazing.

It appeared to me that the same person who posted the Austrian alpine colonel on the forum was also posting under different user IDs to embellish the page or knock or bait me on line. I had noticed over a period of months that an American every three to five weeks would post the same message, “I have been observing this great web site for several months now, the information is very interesting, so I thought I would start posting here etc.” After posting this advertisement, I never saw the guy posting on the forum again. It was obvious to me because of his writing style, which was like a signature, that this was the same American who had posted several inflammatory messages on the previously mentioned Internet thread, he had also started a thread regarding making copy A-H kepi’s. This same person had been responsible for a lot of harassment on my Internet auctions and was another familiar voice. A voice that employed many user IDs and different names on Internet auctions and now Internet forums.


The Block

After five months on line with the Land Farce forum, the creators decided to block me from the web page. The final event was a response to a Internet auction buyer who complained of being cheated. I listed a brief paragraph on using caution on the Internet, information that I had listed previously. Within two days I got a DNS error message page when I hit the Land Farce link. I sent a letter to the creators voicing my concerns and asking why he had blocked me from their web site and to address my other issues regarding his supposed web site. The creators claimed that, “they owed me no explanation on how they managed their web site. I was starting a war on his bandwidth with certain collectors and that he wasn't getting in the middle of my campaign.” The creator further stated that, “I was not blocked from his web site and I could post on the forum, as long as my comments fitted his guidelines, however no one was asking me to stick around.” The creators of the Land Farce forum never addressed any of my listed issues or answered any of my questions.

The Supposed Expert: The Museum Director

Many who tune into militaria forums are working with the copy network to keep tabs on what people are saying about fakes and their distribution on the Internet. Many are friends of the forum creators, who control these forums and what is written and published on line. Any deep disclosure on the copy network is crushed with criticism or simply deleted. I was personally blocked from two forums for going public about what I know about several large scale copy groups operations.

The old Sherlock Holmes theory. When you've ruled out the obvious, whatever remains, however unlikely must be the answer.

Several emails were obtained detailing the Austrians tactics from Internet auctions. The Austrian claimed that the potential Internet buyer was being cheated with fakes and that the buyer should not buy from the listed Internet auction seller. The Austrian claimed via email, “do you want an expert opinion, come to us and check out his web site for detailed information regarding Austrian militaria.” The same Austrian who purports not to speak English that well on the Land Farce forum, spoke perfect English in his email. In England they have an old saying regarding anyone who calls himself an expert: "the word can be split in two, ex and pert, ex meaning has been and pert meaning stiff." An Austrian source claims he knows the Vienna web master, "he gets very angry when I am getting the items he is interested in." Reading between the lines on that, there are three possibilities: One, is he getting angry because it's something he wants for himself or the museum? Or two, is it because it's something that the copy crowd wants? They can then say, I've just bought a better one, the one in my collection is for sale, check my web site, this will qualify the item (the copy), as original with their comprehensive web page article on the badge in question. Or three, they can use an original to make the copies.

Why copies? He can keep the original item and then make money by selling the copies. If he is smart and as long as these collectors are so far apart, they can never compare what they have bought. If the Austrian sells copies privately, he could say to A, B,C,D have all been after this. Please don’t tell them that I let you have it. He repeats this to B, C, D. They all think that they are getting a good deal over everyone else. Simple logic.

Another advantage regarding the web page forum, when someone registers with the group, they will have to give their email address, you can use the email to check who's buying and selling on the Internet. That gives them the chance to sell more copies. This is also why the web page is fronted from the UK, it gives the forum credibility with a published author but the Austrian can distance himself from the heat and let the manger take over as front person, then sell copies off line. The Canadian copy crowd can use the web site to qualify their copies using the sites information, and claim that the site author and his friends are “experts” a noted authority on Austrian militaria.

Most authors write a piece and use a gamut of reference sources, books, articles, web pages, all provide valid information to the researcher, writer or journalist. Most publish, acknowledge, and credit that source. Many so called experts that are web page creators all claim for the most part to be noted authorities in their fields. They like people to think that they know everything. The experts use other peoples work and claim that it is their own. However, in this case, the author appears to be using a pseudonym and then re-writing his work not only in print but on at least a half dozen different websites. The director denies being himself and is employing a wide gamut of fronts and individuals who supposedly have a created a website or written an article when in fact it is the director himself. Other sites have no listed creator but the written work is the same. Perhaps all the cloak and dagger is for legal reasons as he is using museum resources, or trying to qualify a gamut of copies that he knows are fakes as the genuine item? If he uses his real name and with his position as a museum director, he would lose credibility. What’s the importance about someone who writes books or articles on militaria subjects, a so called expert? He writes the articles, he's in a position to "verify" the authenticity of whatever medal or badge, the author is just the sort that the copy crowd would want on their side. He's the one who can give some sort of legitimacy to a wide gamut of copies.

The White Feather

"Tell a Big Lie Long Enough And People Will Begin To Believe It....." Josef Goebels

"Mike,

I take great exception to the tone of this email. I do not owe you any explanations for the way I manage my site or forum!

You have seen fit to conduct your own war against other collectors and in particular ebay using my web space and bandwidth as a platform. In retrospect I regret allowing this. I refuse to be put in the middle of your campaign. (Authors Note: I posted 75 times on this forum, only 3 postings dealt with copies on line, hardly a war or campaign. I also used the term Internet auctions, it was the Austrian who brought up and stated "eBay." When he used the term eBay I then pasted several comments and links from CNBC on Internet fraud, most notably on eBay. I have down loaded 21 pages to support this regarding this thread and what followed. I did privately send the creator my published story "eScam", again noting privately that it concerned eBay but NOT publicaly on his forum. I would also note that this web page creators rudness and arrogance.)

For what it is worth you are not "blocked" from the forum and as far as I am concerned you are more than welcome to continue posting there as long as the content is relevant and you post under your own name.

I can not speak for JS and he is not a moderator on the forum. You have his email address and if you have problems in that respect I suggest you mail him yourself.

If you don't like the site or the forum no one is asking you to stick around. Perhaps as you find my ego "bloated" you will not be asking me for information to further your ebay sales in future?
Regards,
Glenn Jewison

-----Original Message-----From: Michael M. van Lauesen [] Sent: 09 April 2003 08:58To: Subject: Problems.
Dear Mr. J,

I seem to be blocked from your W.W.I A-H forum, is this something that you are deliberately doing? I can get into the home page and other areas of your web site, so I know this is NOT a local provider issue. Over one month ago I have received a DNS message every time I tried to access your forum, other times I can get into the forum page but can't post anything or even see the page, is their a reason for this?

Also I am wondering just prior to this why you have removed all my scans from certain forum threads that I had posted on. Several people had mailed regarding a mourning band thread and I had listed regs. for a mourning period in the kuk armed forces. I had scanned a leaflet about this, their were several others postings. All other scans were present from other threads, posted by other people posting on your forum. This is really an insulting gesture to me, I would like an explanation as to why this is happening?

I had also noticed that you have removed other threads that I had written on regarding copies on the Internet, why have you removed all this, please explain? This is stupid, as the crooks win every time you do this, in my opinion also exceedingly cowardly move on your behalf.

How the wheel turns. I have been contacted by a friend from eBay, apparently Mr. S your colleague who can't speak or read English, is sending out warning mail on eBay about copies and directing people to your site with perfect English, two points on this:

1. After your forum moderator Mr. S absolutely ripped me to shreds on your forum in a very arrogant and condescending manner, along with his friends on this very subject, copies being sold on line and my other expose of the copy trade in Hungary. Why is S sending out warning mail on eBay directing people to your web page? Why have you taken my postings down on this very subject and now apparently blocked me form your forum?

2. I think this is an exceedingly cowardly and two faced series of actions on your supposed colleagues behalf, can you please explain all this to me? It seems that your so called forum moderator has personnel issues. I think instead attacking someone on line constantly with no valid reason and completely missing the point of the posting, maybe he should use email for personnel issues instead of making a fool of himself. Please see Mr. S mail with complete header to the bottom of this mail.

I am aware that a Mr. AK a good friend of Mr. PC and Mr. ZK, who are involved in manufacturing and distributing many of the copies on the Internet. I know that Mr. K has done many postings on various subjects on your forum, that is until Mr. S refused to allow anyone to use the forum unless it was an Austrian issue of the stated time period. K has sent me a mail admitting that he is friends with these two individuals and I know for a fact that he is the one who informed both parties that I was posting on your forum. This is how Mr. C knew I was participating on your W.W.I A-H forum.

I know for a fact that Bobo (Peter C) who posted on your forum on a collecting thread deliberately to wreck it and stated, "I was the one who was, exposing my own copy organization and I was suspended from eBay for shilling, illegal practices and spreading lies." I think you realize this was total rubbish, I am wondering and I have been for some time why you didn't edit his comments and let the "collecting thread" continue, instead of taking the entire thread off and then taking all of my other copy postings down? I realize that many run from controversy but you seemed to panic, after your supposed claims of support and acceptance, this behavior seemed very surprising for a professional soldier and in my opinion cowardly.

I have also been wondering why you have completely edited MY VALID comments regarding Mr. S and his incompetence on line, after criticizing and harassing me on your forum for months. I am asking that you apply your rules fairly. If Mr. S doesn't understand the language or know what is going on, I would suggest as you have informed me, that he provides you with much information that you use him as a research assistant and not a moderator.

Mr. S seems to have on line temper tantrum almost every week regarding something and then reverses himself, can you explain your policy regarding this behavior? Apparently Mr. S can act with impunity. I have to ask myself is this a free and valid forum of discussion or something else.

However, if I even try and bring relevant issues regarding his postings or others that have criticized my work, why do you simply delete my comments, why can't Mr. S address my issues and why do you seem to step in and defend S, without addressing any of my issues and just cut me off? Mr. S in his Internet email also advises the W.W.I A-H forum is his creation and that it is his web site, is this true? I thought you were the creator and organizer of the W.W.I A-H web site and brought Mr. S on board at a later time period. Can you explain his comments? S uses the ID Yogi, C uses Bobo, like the cartoon bears, coincidence? It seems to me in this authors opinion that you are running a vanity page with a couple of bloated egos and not much else. Who only post what and when you want and censor anyone else's view. That sir is not a discussion forum but an a question and answer ego page for the moderator. I think sir, that you will find a little courtesy goes a long, long way. I think that you will find that a little discourtesy goes even further. I thought before I go public with some of my issues I would bring them to your attention.

Regards,


From: j [Save Address] [Block Sender] To: o Cc: Subject: Question from eBay Member Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:36:25 PST Return-Path: <> Received: (qmail 18628 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2003 13:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO spf11.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.43) by 205-158-62-64.outblaze.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2003 13:36:28 -0000 Received: from spf3.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-25.outblaze.com[205.158.62.25]) by spf11.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id4248C16886F for <>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:34:52 +0000(GMT) Received: from mx22.sjc.ebay.com (mxpool11.ebay.com [66.135.197.17]) by spf3.us4.outblaze.com (8.12.8/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h2LDaSwf064404 for <>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:36:28 GMT Received: from walkietalkie.sjc.ebay.com (walkietalkie.sjc.ebay.com [10.6.61.31]) by mx22.sjc.ebay.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP idh2LDaPjE017760 for <>; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:36:25 -0800 Message-Id: <http://us.f366.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=200303211336.h2LDaPjE017760@mx22.sjc.ebay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
An Mitglied: Von Mitglied:
--------------------
Hi fellow-ebayer,

I saw that you are bidding on presumed Austro-Hungarian AviationBadges - perhaps you are interested in some expert opinion:

Badge 1: looks like a WW1 Germany observers badge - could not say ifgenuine or not.
Badge 2: looks like a aviation badge of the Austrian Army 1934-38 but is surely a modern copy, using a modern pilots badge as basic - easy to identify because the contoure of the shield do not fitt if you look on obverse and reverse!

Badge 3: seems to the modern pilots badge of the Austrian armyintroduced in the early 1960s and still in use today.

Badge 4: seems to be the same modern fake as badge number 2!

If you are furtherly interested in more information (at the moment only) about the Austro-Hungarian aviation badges please have a lookat my web-site:

http://www/. Look there at section "Badges&Uniforms" and there under"Qualification Badges".

Best wishes from Vienna

Labels:

0 Comments:

Post a Comment

<< Home